For the interview in Croatian, please click here .



Matthias Lauwers is young but an accomplished tribal fusion artist from Belgium, who is coming to Zagreb in December 2011 to teach two workshops and to perform in the Fusion in Motion 3 show along with many other artists. Certainly a dance chameleon, working in three (as far as we know) completely different and extensively demanding dance forms, he has been at it from the gentle age of eight years old.

Find out what he told us about his dance beginnings, daily schedule, how Split Tribal Fest propelled him to San Francisco, butterfly farm dreams and more.



Orijentalni-ples.com: You started pretty early in your life with dance training? How much of your dance life was a plan and how much a fluke? 
 
Matthias: I started out with classical ballet at the age of eight because my mother, who still dances tango, thought it was important. When she was little, she had years of private tutoring in ballet too, but she put me and my sister in the group lessons. She often reminds me of two things when it comes to this decision: One: She thought it was crucial that both of her children would walk with a straight back and their head held high for the rest of their lives. And two: she used to dance more when she was pregnant with me and my sister... She likes to joke about the fact that me being a dancer is a result of her dancing to all kinds of music while she was pregnant with me. I don’t know if she’s right, but I’m grateful that she did anyways. 
 
Orijentalni-ples.com: When and why did you decide to take ATS classes and from whom? What was the general tribal situation in your country at that time (did it exist?) - did you have committed teachers, organizations that provided workshops, venues to perform in, musicians, costume makers, a public that can recognize the dance and value it?

Matthias: I first took ATS lessons eight years ago when I was 19 as a consequence of me and a friend having seen a show of the Bellydance Superstars in Antwerp. I started looking for classes but because there were no teachers in Belgium I ended up taking classes with Gonda Vrieling from Tribal Mystica. Now we are close friends and she is still one of the most skilled and creative people I know.  She encouraged me to train harder and find my own path.  Back then I was training together with some friends from the same workshop and we performed every now and then.  We would make our own costumes or decided to have some of the  costume parts custom made by someone else. The public was mostly unfamiliar with the dance style but always appreciated it. 

















 







Orijentalni-ples.com: Did you first learn ATS that prefers the right side of the body for dancing or did you learn to use both sides of the body equally? How did this help or hinder you with learning tribal fusion? 
 
Matthias: The ATS I was taught was not only focussed on the right side of the body, as Gonda also incorporated steps from Gypsy Caravan, and others. She would also invent steps of her own, basing herself upon Spanish Flamenco, Bollywood or Gothic stylized movements. Those movements were not only right side focussed.  
 
Orijentalni-ples.com: How did you manage to educate yourself in tribal fusion? Did you develop a schedule, a method that you kept to, what were the sources you used? 
Was it a lonely journey? 
 
Matthias: As far as tribal fusion is concerned I’ve always felt the movements came easily to me. I could feel it was there, but of course I had to put some time and effort in it to execute the movements correctly. I would study videos on youtube with rigor and commitment. Of course I also had Gonda to help me whenever I was stuck. I didn’t have a real schedule or anything when I started out with tribal fusion. I was just so fascinated by it that it took up most of my free time. I guess that’s what frustrated my teachers and friends back then, but it was all I could think of.   


 
Orijentalni-ples.com: How did you begin to teach?

Matthias: I was training with some friends in Antwerp when I got a call from Gonda who told me she had been asked to teach in Antwerp on a weekly basis. Unfortunately she couldn’t take the job due to logistic circumstances and she told me she had talked to the organiser about me. I had been assisting her with teaching workshops for a while now and she asked me if I would be up for it. I agreed and then I taught ATS and tribal fusion for 2 years at Yella Dance Productions. At this moment I’m only teaching workshops. 
 
Orijentalni-ples.com: We would like to know more about the time you spent in San Francisco in 2010. Why did you want to go there, and not anywhere else, from where did you get the idea for such a trip? What insight did you get there, who did you train with? 
 
Matthias: When one starts doing Tribal fusion, it’s impossible not to be confronted with San Francisco. A lot of the leading ladies are based there and it’s the so called ‘mothership’ of ATS . Two years ago I performed at Split, Croatia for the first time and I met some dancers who were SF based and who still travel the world doing what they love. I got closer to some of the dancers and they encouraged me to just go for it and study with the people I had been admiring from a distance. I got much help and support from a lot of people, Kami Liddle in particular. Once in San Francisco, I performed solo and also taught a workshop at Fat Chance Bellydance Studios. I took classes with Kami, Zoe Jakes, Jill Parker, Fat Chance, Suhaila Salimpour, Miriam Peretz and others.

Orijentalni-ples.com: Do you feel accepted as a man in the tribal world? Does it take courage to take it out in the public - to  the non-dance audiences especially? What in your opinion should change in this area, if anything? 

Matthias: It definitely took courage to dance tribal fusion as a male. Of course, I had already been through this before as a boy in ballet class, so I kind of knew how to handle it. I admit I was scared the first time, but I think fear of failure is a great motivator in life.  I don’t actually know what it is to fail, but I think that if I would, I would also be bored. And to me there is only one thing worse than being scared and that’s boredom. In my opinion people in many European countries still need to try and look at a dancer as a someone who is trying to bring across a message in his or her own artistic way, using the technique, artistry and body that he or she has been given. It’s not so much about who is on stage, rather than what that person is trying to tell you. The body is the body and messages have no gender.  

Orijentalni-ples.com: What do you think is specifically "tribal" and what is "fusion" in this dance? Can tribal exist outside of ATS without the fusion aspect? 
 
Matthias: I talk about this with many of my dancer friends and we all have our own opinions about it. To me, dance is art and like any other art form it changes overtime, using the time and place around it. It constantly evolves and that even happens in very strict dance forms like classical ballet. We moved from the legendary Russian dancer Agrippina Vaganova who imported all the drama of the romantic period into her Teaching systeem, to New York City Ballet George Balanchine who got rid of it and wanted passé movements with your ankle on your knee, unthinkable even a decade back!  Now we find Will Forsythe who overstretches the movements and uses extensions and line work that broke rules and regulations he himself grew up with.
ATS and tribal fusion are much less protected than is ballet, but moreover it is also much younger. I think what’s happening right now is many tribal fusion dancers try to find ways to combine ATS with other dance styles and from those ‘fused’ forms, only some will turn out to be successful.  To me, I speak of ATS is when I see a tribe of dancers , using cues for improvisational choreography and ethnic steps, dressed in traditional or traditionally inspired garment. Tribal fusion could be anything an ATS dancer feels inspired to dance, using movements or even deviated movements from the ATS repertoire.     

Orijentalni-ples.com: Do you prefer dancing in a mirrored room or one without reflective surfaces? What s the difference? 
 
Matthias:  “A mirror has two faces” is what my teacher always tells me, and I think she’s right about that. A mirror is great to check a pose, but when you’re really dancing it is an enemy in the room. The mirror takes your mind of how your body translates something and brings it to what that translation looks like, which should not be more important.   The first thing that happens when I have music that moves me is I go to a room that has no mirrors. I then play the song and try to define whatever emotion the song brings to me. During that process there will be movements that feel really good, they resonate with the energy of the music. I then record those combinations and take them with me to the mirrored room to see what they look like. Then I start adjusting and changing until I’ve found an acceptable balance between ‘what it looks like’ and ‘what it feels like’ .


 
Orijentalni-ples.com: Could you tell us about how does your regular weekly schedule look like? Do you have any hobbies, ways to spend quality time de-stressing yourself from all that dance? 
 
Matthias: First thing in the morning is breakfast and a shower, then I do yoga and bellydance drills from 8.00 till 9.30 am. Then I have ballet class each day of the week from 10.00 to 12.00. After that I go home, eat something and take care of daily occupations. Next I go to the gym at 5 pm and have dinner after. Three times a week I also have contemporary or an extra classical class in the evening. Two to three weeks before a performance this schedule gets messed up though. I don’t like that, but I’m trying to accept it.  I don’t really have other hobbies, because there’s nothing else I’d rather do than this. Dancing is my way of destressing, it’s like a catalyst for negativity to me.  I used to ride horses and go skiing, but those sports have become a little bit too dangerous for me right now, in combination with all the dancing that’s going on. I do have plans for hobbies when I’m old though. I want to do Calligraphy and have my own private butterfly garden with various plants and butterflies from all over the world.

Orijentalni-ples.com: Many bellydancers see ballet as something rigid and unnatural and this is why they resist the use of ballet terms or technique in bellydance training. What is your view on this? 
 
Matthias: Bellydance is a Folk dance. It has a historical character of being performed among people in a very close atmosphere with little to no distance. I hope some of you can hear Jamila’s stories about this, she’s great at giving you the core message about this art form. Ballet was invented for stage performing with a distance between the performers and the audience. It therefore works by a completely different system. They invented steps and names and stage terms to get the best out of working with the space on stage. Since bellydancers are now performing on stages and fusing bellydance with other dance forms, I think it’s wise to have a look at dance forms that have been on stage longer than we have. We can all learn from each other without being a threat.   
Orijentalni-ples.com: Also, what do you think about the reluctance to fuse tribal with contemporary dance. There have been quite a few "this is not bellydance" reactions from tribal folks to this stylization. 
 
Matthias: I think this is what happens in many dance styles. Once it’s evolving, there’s going to be people who go with the flow and others who choose to stay true to the dance as they learned it. It also has got to do with different generations of dancers. I will never claim to be a classical bellydancer, but I do think it’s important to dig deep and know the roots of whatever it is you’re dancing. That’s why I take classical ballet combined with contemporary, and Suhaila Salimpour as well as Fat Chance. It’s like cooking a great oriental dish. In order to do so it’s crucial to know what ingredients you’re using so you can explain to others why your combination is innovative and special.    

Orijentalni-ples.com: You are head of the dance troupe Ezrah. We would like to know about  the dancers of Ezrah and how you work together, also about your link to The Uzume and any other collaborations you would like to point out?   

Matthias: Ezrah is a group that is an assemblance of dancers I know and used to teach or dance together with.  We used to train 4 hours a week but due to lifestyle choices such as jobs and education abroad we are currently unable to train and perform together as a troup.  I performed and collaborated with Tjarda Van Straten of the Uzumé as a replacement dancer in the Uzumé and a collaborator in The Amano Project. I think it’s important to work with other people as long as you are on the same line and want to help the other one grow. I’m currently working on a duet with Nina Riddering, a Tribal Mystica dancer who has great potential. Another collaboration is with Illan Rivière and Anasma. I promised I wouldn’t reveal too much, but it’s going to be very surprising.  
 
Orijentalni-ples.com: Please share with us your dance philosophy.

Matthias: It is the sight you try to hear, the sound you try to see, the caress you try to smell, the aroma you attempt to feel. It is a taste of a language that won’t be tamed in words, because words are useless when it comes to dance. It’s like trying to give a definition of good sex... I can assure you it will never be as rich as the act itself, and reading it most definitely won’t make you feel like you just did it.  
 
Orijentalni-ples.com: Lastly, in Zagreb you re performing with Susan Frankovich and what is really interesting is how did you two create a choreography and practice for the duet since you live so far away from one another? Is this a routine you already worked on in the past or something new brainstormed through e-mail and skype? What can we expect to see? 
 
Matthias: At this time we’ve only been preparing. We talked about music, and Susan shared a song with me that she really liked. I liked it too and so both of us thought about a story, and what movements might be suitable for this, considering each of us have different background and preferences. It’s not yet finished but there’s always youtube and email, skype and texting, so there’s no escape for the both of us. The real work will start when I get to Zagreb. We’ll be going through all of our ideas and put together whatever feels right to both of us. It’s exciting to see what the result will be, can’t wait to finish it and bring it on stage . :)


This interview has been conducted on November 30th 2011 by the author Marija Solarević for www.orijentalni-ples.com.
Photo credits: Thomas Benschop, Ambrosia Photography, Sanja Prnjak
Croatian version translator: Dunja Ćuk - Podolski